flight dynamics problems

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bstolle
Posts: 9
Joined: Wed 8. Jun 2011, 06:33

flight dynamics problems

Post by bstolle »

As mentioned at SOH this is a really GREAT plane!!
Despite the use of the ‘coupled MOI’ there are a few rather serious problems with the flight dynamics ;)

Rudder

Power on:
E.g. if you try to do a ‘flat’ turn with the rudder only at around 120kts she yaws extremely fast (about 90deg/sec) and if not checked with the elevator she will be in a 90deg nose down attitude after a 90deg turn.
If you just try to keep the nose down from dropping with a bit of pull during the flat turn, she will immediately perform a rapid flatspin like maneuver .
Full rudder produces a very high roll rate but the yaw rate is much less, a behaviour that’s normally only associated with fast jets and swept wing planes.
When performing a hammerhead you can start the rudder input at as low as 2-5kts and she will come around within 1-2sec.
If you apply full rudder on ground at e.g. 2-3kts she does a very fast (2sec) 360deg turn almost on the spot .

Power off:
The roll rate with the rudder is almost as high as with the ailerons.
It’s not possible to do a slip at approach speed e.g. 80kts with full rudder because the aileron authority is too low to counteract the yaw.
On the ground at only 2-3kts with the throttle almost at idle the yaw moment from the rudder is excessive. Turns feel like there is a tailwheel steering.
If you look at the various videos with the 108 taxiing there’s quite a lot of rudder movement with only very little yaw at low speed as there’s almost no airflow over the rudder.

Stall

In an accelerated stall she does a violent snap roll, almost like the Fw190.
Something that shouldn’t happen with the slatted wing and that didn’t happen with the 109 either.
She’s rather unstable along the longitudinal axis even in a ‘normal’ straight and level stall, again that shouldn’t be the case with the slatted wing.
Once stalled there’s no stall break (trimmed for a 70kts glide) and the nose doesn’t drop with full up elevator.
Interestingly even when you release the stick she remains in the stalled nose high descent attitude
Last but not least the wing contact points seem to be way too far inboard.

That may sound like a lot of complaints but this is just a precise as possible problem description and I do enjoy this plane a lot!!!!

Best regards

Bernt
Ebo
Posts: 14
Joined: Mon 10. May 2010, 15:03

Re: flight dynamics problems

Post by Ebo »

Well put Bernt. I noticed similar things especially on the rudder and the ground steering. I initially thought the tail wheel was steerable and could be locked.

On take off with the aircraft pulling left the slightest rudder correction will either yaw her to the right or cause a wing over.
Regards
Eberhard

Intel(R) Core(TM) i5 CPU 660 @ 3.33GHz | Mobo: DQ57TM | 6Gb - DDR3 1333 | Nvidia Inno3D GTS250 (1024Mb) ~ 275.33 | Win7 Pro x64
Beta tester ~ TongassX • FTX Beta team • REX 1.0/2.0/FS2004
Mathias Pommerien
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Location: Uelzen/Germany
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Re: flight dynamics problems

Post by Mathias Pommerien »

Thanks, I'm sure Greg will respond shortly with an educated reply.
Mathias Pommerien (Classics Hangar)

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pilottj
Posts: 55
Joined: Thu 8. Jul 2010, 23:53

Re: flight dynamics problems

Post by pilottj »

That was going to be my only small quibble with the flight dynamics was with the Rudder. Looking at the rudder it does have quite a large surface area so I would imagine it would be fairly sensitive. It doen't take much rudder pressure to send you off of a runway side or groundloop. For me it might be the scale of rudder pressure required. Sure at full rudder it should turn very sharply but it seems it turns pretty quick even with slight rudder pressures. I brought down the rudder sensitivity, increased the null zone a little and increased the resistance (Saitek ProFlight Peddals) which helps make takeoffs on narrow runways easier :)

Awesome plane tho, I took it for a little night flight last night, wow...loved the 'feeling' and the atmosphere in it. A friend had a 1969 Mercedes coupe, it kind of reminded me of sitting in that.
JonP01
Posts: 11
Joined: Wed 8. Jun 2011, 14:00

Re: flight dynamics problems

Post by JonP01 »

I agree with both of the posts above. That said, I am not a pilot and have never flown a real aircraft. Nevertheless, if the rudder in any full-sized aircraft caused the sorts of reactions I am seeing with this model, I would be both extremely surprised and extremely concerned, since one tiny sneeze on take off landing would likely result in an accident! :shock: Infact I did sneeze on one take-off and prompty ground-looped it. Even the natural analogue imperfections of my joystick rudder in the neutral position are sufficient to cause yaw instability and oscillations in this aircraft and surely this cannot possibly be right (having to use a larger deadzone than any other aircraft).

I do have to say though, at at least when it comes to elevator and aileron inputs, the aircraft's reactions to the degree of control surface deflection seems to be much more realistic than the vast majority of FSX models (where contol deflections seem to need to be vastly exaggerated).
Mathias Pommerien
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Re: flight dynamics problems

Post by Mathias Pommerien »

Hi guys,

I just heard back from Greg that we suffered a compiler error with the latest FM build what causes the rudder to be over-responsive.
I just received a fix and will make shortly available along with fixes for the few other bugs that have been reported.
So, thanks for the input and stay tuned!
Mathias Pommerien (Classics Hangar)

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Ebo
Posts: 14
Joined: Mon 10. May 2010, 15:03

Re: flight dynamics problems

Post by Ebo »

That is indeed some very good news!

Thanks for your feedback. I am looking forward to the patch.
Regards
Eberhard

Intel(R) Core(TM) i5 CPU 660 @ 3.33GHz | Mobo: DQ57TM | 6Gb - DDR3 1333 | Nvidia Inno3D GTS250 (1024Mb) ~ 275.33 | Win7 Pro x64
Beta tester ~ TongassX • FTX Beta team • REX 1.0/2.0/FS2004
JonP01
Posts: 11
Joined: Wed 8. Jun 2011, 14:00

Re: flight dynamics problems

Post by JonP01 »

Great news Mathias (and quite a relief too!). I know I have only been a Classics Hangar customer for a day, but your level of service and resposiveness far exceeds that of any other software developer / vendor I have ever come across.
Mathias Pommerien
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Re: flight dynamics problems

Post by Mathias Pommerien »

Thank you, Jon! :P
Mathias Pommerien (Classics Hangar)

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bstolle
Posts: 9
Joined: Wed 8. Jun 2011, 06:33

Re: flight dynamics problems

Post by bstolle »

Mathias Pommerien wrote:Hi guys,

I just heard back from Greg that we suffered a compiler error with the latest FM build what causes the rudder to be over-responsive.
I just received a fix and will make shortly available along with fixes for the few other bugs that have been reported.
So, thanks for the input and stay tuned!
That's great news! I was already afraid that this might be the beginning of an endless discussion about aerodynamics, LOL
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